{"id":49514,"date":"2017-01-10T11:48:57","date_gmt":"2017-01-10T16:48:57","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/models.com\/mdx\/?p=49514"},"modified":"2022-09-16T11:38:11","modified_gmt":"2022-09-16T15:38:11","slug":"paul-cavaco","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/models.com\/mdx\/paul-cavaco\/","title":{"rendered":"Paul Cavaco"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class='coverpic'>\n<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2017\/01\/PaulPortrait.jpg\" width=\"2000\" height=\"2483\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-49744\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2017\/01\/PaulPortrait.jpg 2000w, https:\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2017\/01\/PaulPortrait-1280x1589.jpg 1280w, https:\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2017\/01\/PaulPortrait-161x200.jpg 161w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" \/>\n<\/div>\n<style>\n#content div.post {color:black;}\n#introbox,#creditbox {border:1px solid white;padding:30px;max-width: 850px;margin: auto !important;}\n#introbox, #introbox p {font-family:'Neue Haas Unica W01';}\n#introbox{font-size:20px;text-align:center !important;}\n.coverpic {max-width:1280px;padding: 10% 30%;}\n.photogtitle {font-size:2rem;}\n#introtxt {margin:80px 0;padding:0 40px;font-size:1.6rem;}\n.opensans,#introtxt, #introbox, .introcredits {font-family:'Neue Haas Unica W01', sans-serif;}\n#introbox .introcredits {font-size:.85rem;padding:40px 0;}\n.post p, .post div p:first-child {padding:0}\n.toppic {padding-bottom: 20px;}\n.txtdiv {padding: 0 40px;clear:both;}\n#introbox,.txtbox,.rside {margin:0px 0 10px 0;font-weight:300;}\n.title {font-size:4.2rem;color:black;font-weight:normal;margin:auto;padding:60px 0;text-align:center;text-transform: uppercase;font-family: 'Neue Haas Unica W01';font-weight: 400;}\n.title a {color:black;}\n#introbox .titlename {font-size:8.5rem;}\n#introbox .mdctitle {color:#999;}\n#introbox,.txtbox,.introblurb {text-align:justify;}\n.introblurb,.introblurb p {line-height:1.6;}\n.quote {width:65%;margin:40px auto;}\n.credits {font-size:1.35rem;padding:2rem 0;font-weight:normal;text-align:center;clear:both;text-transform: uppercase;max-width: 800px;margin: auto;}\n.txtcont {border:1px solid black;}\n.txtbox {font-family:'Neue Haas Unica W01', sans-serif;width:36%;border:0;margin:auto;padding: 60px 10%;}\n.rside {padding: 60px 80px 0 50px;}\n.interviewenglish {font-style: italic;}\n.imgbox {margin:0x;padding:40px 0;}\n.rside .quotebox {margin:30px 0px 10px 30px;}\n.fwidth {clear:both;}\n.separ {border:1px solid white;clear:both;margin:60px;}\n.center {text-align: center;}\n.center img {max-width: 80%;}\n.pic40 {width:40%;margin:5% 30%;}\n.fullwidth {max-width:100% !important;margin-top:20px;}\n.videodiv {height:auto;width:auto;background-color:white;padding-top:20px;padding-bottom:20px;max-width:1280px;}\n.pullquote {font-size:1.8rem;text-align:center;font-style:italic;max-width:900px;margin:auto;padding:0px 20px;font-family: 'Neue Haas Unica W01';}\n.txtbox {font-family:'Neue Haas Unica W01', sans-serif;width:36%;border:0;margin:auto;padding: 60px 10%;}\n<\/style>\n<link type=\"text\/css\" rel=\"stylesheet\" href=\"\/\/fast.fonts.net\/cssapi\/1ee7eecc-8318-40d7-9f60-2840770611c0.css\"\/>\n<!-- mdc set, L Futura W01,Linotype Didot W01,Neue Haas Unica W01 --><\/p>\n<div class=\"txtdiv\">\n<div id=\"introbox\">\n<div class=\"title\"><a href='\/\/models.com\/people\/paul-cavaco'>Paul Cavaco<\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"introblurb\">\nThis is a story about the past. A story about love. Redemption. It begins at what one might have thought to be the end, when at the top of last year one of the greatest stylistic minds, <a href='\/\/models.com\/people\/paul-cavaco'>Paul Cavaco<\/a>, was ousted from the creative director role he held for over 16 years &#8211; an unfortunate occurrence as of late with declining ad sales and budget cuts in print media. Before his tenure at Allure, Cavaco held down high-level positions at both Harper\u2019s Bazaar and Vogue, respectively, and was one of the founding members of mega-PR firm, KCD. As prolific a career as they come, he has collaborated with the top photographic minds of our time like visual luminaries Patrick Demarchelier, Annie Leibovitz, Steven Meisel, Peter Lindbergh, and Mario Testino using his style expertise to create memorable images involving characters that run the gamut between top model to noted celebrity. So after all that, what does one do when the odds are stacked against you? Persevere. Showing no sign of slowing down, Models.com spoke with the noteworthy stylist as he continues to land major covers and campaigns with the same gusto and humor of his younger years &#8211; this time entirely on his own terms.<\/p><\/div>\n<div class=\"introcredits\">\n<p>          Interview and text by <a href='\/\/models.com\/people\/irene-ojo-felix'>Irene Ojo-Felix<\/a><\/p>\n<div style=\"padding-top:20px;\">\n               Above portrait by <a href='\/\/models.com\/people\/michael-beauplet'>Michael Beauplet<\/a><br \/>\n               All other images courtesy of <a href='\/\/models.com\/agency\/Jed-Root'>Jed Root (New York)<\/a><br \/>\n               Paul Cavaco is represented by <a href='\/\/models.com\/agency\/Jed-Root'>Jed Root (New York)<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"small-12 columns pic40\">\n<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/Harpers_KateMoss_MarioT_0496-1-1280x1707.jpg\" width=\"1280\" height=\"1707\" class=\"alignnone size-medium wp-image-49530\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/Harpers_KateMoss_MarioT_0496-1.jpg 1280w, https:\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/Harpers_KateMoss_MarioT_0496-1-150x200.jpg 150w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1280px) 100vw, 1280px\" \/>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"credits\">HARPER&#8217;S BAZAAR APRIL 1996 MARIO TESTINO<\/div>\n<div class=\"txtbox\">\n<p><strong>Do you ever look back in retrospect and think \u201cthis was a big moment&#8221;?<\/strong><br \/>\nWhen you\u2019re having the moment, you don\u2019t know if it could be big. <\/p>\n<p><strong>Until it hits.<\/strong><br \/>\nYou know I did Bazaar. We knew it was big. Kate Moss in America &#8211; nobody had done her that way. We did a cover with Linda Evangelista and we thought we were major. In retrospect, people look back and exclaim oh my God that first issue but when it first came out people were like &#8220;meh, it\u2019s good.&#8221; When Madonna\u2019s book came out people were like, it\u2019s good. You talk to your contemporaries in fashion and we\u2019re all very onto the next thing. Very rarely will you get someone who will just flat out say \u201cOh my God! Major!&#8221; It\u2019s just the nature of fashion people who are much more chill and subdued. <\/p>\n<p><strong>I guess it\u2019s the anxiety to always be thinking about the next project. Although you might have a great project rooted in the now, is there a pressure to always better it?<\/strong><br \/>\nYou know, I\u2019m from the old school. I was married to this woman Kezia Keeble and she would always tell me, &#8220;just do the thing in front of you&#8221;. So my entire career, whatever presented itself is what I would do. To me it was what made my career kind of work. When I worked at Vogue, I would style a lot of the normal clothes. <\/p>\n<p><strong>I wouldn&#8217;t think that Vogue was anywhere near the idea of normalcy.<\/strong><br \/>\nIt depends on the presenting. For me it became, how do I solve this? That\u2019s really what our job is. My job is to solve problems. You have to do colored dresses, many colored dresses and say you have to edit them, if you have good taste you can figure out the seven or twelve you need. Then it\u2019s how do I present it in a way that makes you look at it and go, \u201cthat was brilliant!&#8221; I want that. Our job is to make it covetable and to make it so that you want to buy this. It\u2019s hard to be thinking about the next thing because it\u2019s case by case. It\u2019s almost like being in an emergency ward. Did you ever see that show ER? Do you remember how they would have the gurney going through it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Yeah you saved one person but now you\u2019ve got to keep going and going\u2026 <\/strong><br \/>\nExcept it\u2019s not the same sickness, you\u2019ve got a whole new sickness. A whole other set of circumstances, a whole other set of people. So, I\u2019ve never really planned. I just kept doing what was in front of me. 40 years later it\u2019s a lot in front and a lot behind me\u2026 ** laughs ** <\/p>\n<p><strong>And when did you first realize that styling was a job? <\/strong><br \/>\nYou know, when I started it was a job that had just started to be a real thing. There were stylists but mostly when a photographer would get an advertising job, a stylist would then put the clothes together or the designer would come and do it. Occasionally, they would seek out an editor secretly to do the shoot and then I came. I started working in \u201976 and it was just before then that they started to have stylists. There were no guys doing it unless you were an editor. Robert Turner was an editor at Vogue. Andre (Leon Talley) was an editor, and he did some shoots but there were no freelance. People didn\u2019t credit stylists like they would do the hair &#038; makeup. Kezia had worked at Vogue and they asked her to come back and do freelance under (former Vogue Editor-in-Chief) Grace Mirabella so that\u2019s how it all started. I got to work with Bruce Weber. My first real advertising job was with Bruce. <\/p>\n<div class=\"pullquote\">\n&#8220;It was great to be young, it\u2019s similar now to probably being on the internet. It was all uncharted territory. We started KCD because Kezia was always called by an art director and asked who do you think we should use for this project&#8230;one day she thought, why am I giving away all of this information for free? We should just start this company.&#8221;\n<\/div>\n<p><strong>What was the ad? <\/strong><br \/>\nDaks! Daks is a suit company from London. He hired me to do it and it was the 70\u2019s and it was great! Then I worked with Patrick (Demarchelier) and then I worked in advertising. People weren\u2019t specializing in menswear and people would wonder who to use on a shoot and someone would say, oh you should use Kezia\u2019s husband, he\u2019s doing menswear styling. For the first few years that\u2019s what I did mostly. I did freelance for Vogue, market editing&#8230; <\/p>\n<p><strong>The market editor for men&#8230;<\/strong><br \/>\nThey would call me and say I need ten black pants, ten black shoes, ten black shirts. I just did what they wanted. Now that I look back, I didn\u2019t know what I was doing. I was not with any finesse. But anyway, I got it done. <\/p>\n<p><strong>What you\u2019re describing is kind of how it\u2019s done now. Obviously now you have much more structure where you have the market editor and the stylist that comes on set and takes what you found in market and pieces it together, right?<\/strong><br \/>\nWe set it up because everybody had at some point worked for a magazine or had modeled for a magazine. You had your assistants who would shop for you, you would go into the market and shop. Kezia and I would shop also\u2026 <\/p>\n<p><strong>So no borrowing? There wasn\u2019t a system where you could borrow? <\/strong><br \/>\nYou could borrow for credit! <\/p>\n<p><strong>You had to go through traditional retail stores? <\/strong><br \/>\nYes, you could buy it because it was advertisement. Usually the ad was before the manufacturing. First the product was given to you, but then you had to buy socks or buy shoes. It was similar to how it is now, but now it\u2019s much more organized. The Irene Albright Library hadn\u2019t happened which was probably the first of its kind where you could actually go and it\u2019s just racks and racks of beautiful clothes that you could rent and use for anything. <\/p>\n<p>It was great to be young, it\u2019s similar now to probably being on the internet. It was all uncharted territory. We started KCD because Kezia was always called by an art director and asked who do you think we should use for this project and she\u2019d reply I think we should use Steven Meisel or this hairdresser or XYZ. One day she thought, why am I giving away all of this information for free? We should just start this company. Kezia to me was like a genius so I was like you wanna go there? I\u2019ll go! Whatever she wanted to do, I was on. So we started this company, we were divorced at this point and she was married to John Duka who was a writer. We started as advertising and thought we\u2019d just do press kits. Then people said, why don\u2019t you do PR too and we said okay. But then Julie (Mannion) had been working with us from the styling aspect and Ed (Filipowski) came on too. They came in as kids but they were great! They have changed everything and they\u2019re part of the DNA &#8211; people always say it\u2019s Kezia, John, and Paul but they were there so early that they\u2019re part of what it was. It was so organic the way we all worked together. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"small-12 medium-6 columns\">\n<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/peter-lindbergh-linda-evangelista-fly-1ResizeResize2.jpg\" width=\"1280\" height=\"1499\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-49586\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/peter-lindbergh-linda-evangelista-fly-1ResizeResize2.jpg 1280w, https:\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/peter-lindbergh-linda-evangelista-fly-1ResizeResize2-171x200.jpg 171w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1280px) 100vw, 1280px\" \/>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"small-12 medium-6 columns\">\n<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/RollingStone_Madonna_0691_Meisel-1-1280x1499.jpg\" width=\"1280\" height=\"1499\" class=\"alignnone size-medium wp-image-49527\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/RollingStone_Madonna_0691_Meisel-1.jpg 1280w, https:\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/RollingStone_Madonna_0691_Meisel-1-171x200.jpg 171w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1280px) 100vw, 1280px\" \/>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"credits\">LEFT: HARPER&#8217;S BAZAAR NOVEMBER 1992 PETER LINDBERGH | RIGHT: ROLLING STONE JUNE 1991 STEVEN MEISEL<\/div>\n<div class=\"txtbox\">\n<p><strong>It seems like they really took the essence of what you guys started.<\/strong><br \/>\nOh they took it to another level. What they were doing didn\u2019t exist while they were doing it. They just kept growing it and being part of the world of fashion as it kept evolving and morphing. It\u2019s a brilliant thing they were able to keep going, not get stuck, just keep growing and changing and shifting. I\u2019m not their parents, I shouldn\u2019t be proud of them, but I\u2019m proud of them. It doesn\u2019t resemble at all what it did when it was this baby company. <\/p>\n<p><strong>It\u2019s like a start up\u2026<\/strong><br \/>\nThey really made it theirs. They made it their own. <\/p>\n<p><strong>Going back to when you guys eventually parted ways in \u201991 and you got the call from Harper\u2019s.<\/strong><br \/>\nI made the call to Harper\u2019s\u2026 ** laughs ** I had been working on the Sex book for Madonna and it was with Fabien (Baron), Steven (Meisel), and Francois (Nars). Fabien said Liz Tilberis is coming to America to work for Harper\u2019s Bazaar, I\u2019m going to go, and you should come too. He said to me, \u201cthis train is stopping at this station now. I don\u2019t know if this train is ever going to come back to this station so you might not be able to get back on at another time.&#8221; So, I just thought, this is kind of the perfect timing. I was doing a lot of styling at the time. They were running the KCD business with me but Ed and Julie were really equipped. They didn&#8217;t really need me. I called Liz Tilberis and I said, I want to be your fashion director. She responded, \u201coh, I have the offer out to someone. I don\u2019t know what to do.&#8221; The person turned it down and she called saying, \u201cDo you want to do this?&#8221; Absolutely. Then she called me a few days later and said, I just spoke to Paul Wilmot about Tonne Goodman and he thinks she would be a great fashion director too. How do you feel about sharing it? I was like, \u201cI\u2019d love to!&#8221; We were friends. We knew each other and we had had dinners together. It ended up being the most fabulous years. Working there was a dream and Tonne was a dream beyond. They had to split us up one time because we used to share an office and they were like, you two need to be separated! Liz was incredible as a boss.<\/p>\n<div class=\"pullquote\">\n&#8220;I\u2019ve copied pictures, everyone has copied pictures. I look at people now that are working and I\u2019ve actually looked at something and thought, I worked on that picture but I didn\u2019t work on that picture at all.&#8221;\n<\/div>\n<p><strong>What moments particularly stand out from your time at Harper\u2019s Bazaar? <\/strong><br \/>\nFirst of all, the first issue was with Kate Moss. I had her almost every issue because I was obsessed and she was like a doll I could just change her. Working with David Sims. My first shoot with him and Linda Evangelista. We laughed so hard. Mostly I laugh at all of my shoots because I think there\u2019s something really funny about life. I want to have a good time. You just have to let it go and I think we had a really good time and the pictures were extraordinary. <\/p>\n<p><strong>Interesting approach. Sometimes fashion gets the reputation of being very serious. <\/strong><br \/>\nI think the thing is, if you\u2019re that person then that\u2019s who you are. You would be serious about stocks and bonds. I probably would be in the OR laughing. I\u2019ve always had the great fortune of working with really nice people. People always ask, what happened on the shoot? Nothing ever happens. We\u2019re working, we\u2019re laughing. We\u2019re seriously trying to do something. The thing is, even though we\u2019re having a good time it doesn\u2019t mean that we aren\u2019t trying to push for what we want. Can I take this piece, a bunch of shoes, a model who is just herself. A hairdresser that has a thousand products and wigs. A makeup artist who has a thousand products. That moment of creation is always the beginning process. During that part, we\u2019re not laughing, but as you keep going you tweak your part and look at it. Hopefully you create something that you haven\u2019t created before. That\u2019s the goal.<\/p>\n<p><strong>It\u2019s all that question about inspiration. Trying to create a picture that you haven\u2019t see before but you\u2019re still relying on references from the past. <\/strong><br \/>\nI do. I\u2019ve looked at everything. I\u2019ve copied pictures, everyone has copied pictures. I look at people now that are working and I\u2019ve actually looked at something and thought, I worked on that picture but I didn\u2019t work on that picture at all. <\/p>\n<p><strong>You worked on the picture that they sourced! <\/strong><br \/>\nYeah and they too can look at my pictures and go, oh yeah that\u2019s a full on knockoff. I\u2019ve done pictures based on images  I would see in National Geographic&#8217;s or Life Magazine and you just put them all together and you have this idea. What happens is, I\u2019m just the editor. So I show it to the photographer like this. It goes through his filter so by the time it happens it has nothing to do with that original picture because everyone is trying something. It\u2019s always an interpretation. That\u2019s the great thing! Fortunately I have friends that are very inspired and inspiring. Like Anna Sui goes to see a movie, a museum, or art shows. Just everything. She\u2019s inspired by the entire universe.<\/p>\n<p><strong>She brings whatever she sees or whatever she\u2019s doing it and brings it into her sector. Her world of 1960\u2019s psychedelic, right? <\/strong><br \/>\nThe thing is, sometimes she doesn\u2019t. She did a show and her description of the show was \u201cTibetan-Hiphop-Surfer.&#8221; Three things that have nothing to do with each other. The show happened and it was tibetan hiphop surfers. How she got this, don\u2019t ask me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>No matter what anybody else says, they have their vision. <\/strong><br \/>\nIt\u2019s great to be inspired by other things. Sometimes you are and sometimes you\u2019re not, you\u2019re just inspired by nothing. Especially now with the internet you have the access to everything. Have you ever seen the movie The Conformist? Maybe a person would say no and say well tell me about it. I\u2019d describe and say well it\u2019s backlit, she\u2019s wearing grey, a top with a flannel pant, mind you that\u2019s not what she was wearing at all but that\u2019s how it looked in my eyes. Now I can get it on the internet and instantly go &#8220;hmmm not at all.&#8221; I\u2019m saying that to them and it\u2019s not backlit but the photographer goes okay, I do the clothes based on this thing that I think that doesn\u2019t exist but I thought it did. He\u2019s doing his thing based on what I said to him, but he doesn\u2019t know what it is because he doesn\u2019t have a picture of it. Then you have a picture that had nothing to do with anything, but now you have a new image. <\/p>\n<p><strong>So, then the transition to Vogue happened. How was that then going to Vogue? Did you always want to do it? <\/strong><br \/>\nIt was a validation for me. What happened is I was offered the job, Kezia had been offered the job like, I think it was maybe 17 years prior to that. She didn\u2019t take it because she was pregnant with our child but I was able to take the job because our daughter was grown up. I so wanted to do it! All I wanted was one Vogue cover. I thought one Vogue cover would give me a validation. I had already done an Italian Vogue cover. I did a lot of the covers for Harper\u2019s Bazaar but I wanted an American Vogue cover. And I did most of the covers with the exception of a very few for several years. I did almost every single one. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"small-12 medium-6 columns\">\n<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/ItVogueCover-1280x1700.jpg\" width=\"1280\" height=\"1700\" class=\"alignnone size-medium wp-image-49540\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/ItVogueCover.jpg 1280w, https:\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/ItVogueCover-151x200.jpg 151w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1280px) 100vw, 1280px\" \/>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"small-12 medium-6 columns\">\n<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/W_Kiernan_Zendaya_0416-1Resize.jpg\" width=\"1280\" height=\"1700\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-49588\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/W_Kiernan_Zendaya_0416-1Resize.jpg 1280w, https:\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/W_Kiernan_Zendaya_0416-1Resize-151x200.jpg 151w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1280px) 100vw, 1280px\" \/><\/div>\n<div class=\"credits\">LEFT: VOGUE ITALIA DECEMBER 2016 BRUCE WEBER | RIGHT: W APRIL 2016 WILLY VANDERPERRE<\/div>\n<div class=\"txtbox\">\n<p><strong>Do any covers particularly stand out? <\/strong><br \/>\nOprah. <\/p>\n<p><strong>Oprah with the one where she was in the field. <\/strong><br \/>\nShe\u2019s laying down. <\/p>\n<p><strong>To be honest I always take for granted Oprah\u2019s magnitude and cultural reach, but was it the same when you shot her?<\/strong><br \/>\nNo, it was major. One day, I was working on putting the clothes together in the closet. My office wasn\u2019t near the closet, so I had to walk to it. My phone rang, and I always answer my own phone but I was away, so my assistant answered the phone and heard, \u201cHi, this is Oprah.&#8221; It was not like, \u201cHi, this is an assistant for Oprah.&#8221; My assistant went, \u201cUh\u2026he\u2019s down the hall, can I have him call you back?&#8221; Oprah, \u201cNo, I\u2019ll hold.&#8221; She came to get me at lightening speed and the two of us raced back panting, \u201cHi&#8230;*breathes heavily* Oprah\u2026&#8221; Like, Oprah just called me!<\/p>\n<p>When a celebrity calls me because I want them to talk to someone before they get onto set, and when they call me I still laugh! Out of nervousness I think, Oh my god I am talking to whoever it is, Angelina Jolie or Kate Hudson. Like I remember when Madonna called me for the first time, gigantic. The first time I shot her was for her Rolling Stone cover. She called me and I was so tickled pink that I didn\u2019t know what to do with myself. So when Oprah called me I was like, she just called me directly. She was divine and the shoot was heaven. She had her hairdresser who she\u2019s had for a million years who does the most beautiful job, she has the best quality hair. It\u2019s thick, soft and silky. But I told her, if you\u2019re going to do Vogue you need to have the full Vogue experience. Kezia used to always say to me, and I said this to Oprah, you can\u2019t jump in the pool and leave your leg on the side. You\u2019re going to break it. And she just went all the way in. Her hairdresser who was adorable too, he came on set just to make sure everything was OK.  It was a major moment! This is a not-skinny black girl on the cover of Vogue. <\/p>\n<p><strong>I remember! That was the fittest that she was.<\/strong><br \/>\nShe wanted to do it. I said, you\u2019ll do this? and she did it. We had, it was such a sweet time. So nice. She cried, I cried. Everything about it was heaven. She was heaven. <\/p>\n<p><strong>How was it working with Anna (Wintour) as far as a boss?<\/strong><br \/>\nShe was incredible. She\u2019s very adult. As goofy as I am, I\u2019m still an adult. I get the work done and I\u2019ve got things I want to do. She would say, can you do this and I\u2019d say yeah. It was business. She wanted things done artfully. Just do what you think is beautiful. She was very good with me about, everything. I have to say I loved working with her but she wasn\u2019t always easy. She knew what she wanted and my head would be spinning. <\/p>\n<p>It was very difficult because she has very high standards but as a boss she was great. You knew where you stood. She pushed me a little bit, but I always knew what I had to do. I did a shoot that I thought was great once, and she didn\u2019t really like it. She just said, it\u2019s Christmas let\u2019s call it in. I think she respected the fact that I was very straightforward. <\/p>\n<div class=\"pullquote\">\n&#8220;To me, it is commerce. We are doing commerce. It may be that we\u2019ve done it and it is artful and it becomes art. But our job is commerce.&#8221;\n<\/div>\n<p><strong>So when the call came in to do Allure and to jump on that train, why did you decide to go that route? <\/strong><br \/>\nFor me, it was the opportunity to be a part of the art department and have a say in the way the magazine in total looked. Linda (Wells) was great about it, asked if I wanted to do it and it was heaven. I worked 16 or 16 and a half years there. She was a great boss and a great collaborator. I like distinctness. I don\u2019t like collapsed things, I like everything to be distinct. A parent is your parent, I\u2019m not your friend. She was my boss. So I\u2019m always good which is why it was good with Anna because I wanted to always know what the final word is. I might not always agree with the final word but I will align with the final word. They chose covers where I wanted a different cover, but they have the last word and I\u2019m good to take a backseat. I mean really, I\u2019m good as an editor with the photographer in the lead and I\u2019m the second.<\/p>\n<p><strong>So your final cover for them was March of this year &#8211; how has that whole transition period been? Now you\u2019ve worked for so many years within editorial do you ever want to go back to editorial? <\/strong><br \/>\nI\u2019m doing it, that\u2019s what I\u2019ve been doing. You mean like, a job? A full time job? It depends if it was the right one. I don\u2019t know what that would be at the moment. But the world has changed. Fashion is changing, the magazine industry is changing, the internet is changing. We\u2019re in this wonderful moment of change. Whatever opportunity comes up might not be what I think it\u2019s going to be. It may not look the way I think it\u2019s going to look. It never turns out what you think it\u2019s going to be. So, if the right thing came up, yes. I\u2019ve been doing a lot of editorial and I\u2019ve been liking it. It\u2019s been good to exercise that muscle again. While I always did editorial I was doing a very specific thing and now I\u2019m able to do something stranger. <\/p>\n<p>I just worked with Bruce Weber recently and I haven\u2019t worked with him in like 16 years. When I first worked with Bruce at the very beginning of my career, we would say to each other, \u201cHow far can we push this before they kill it?&#8221; That was always our thing. That was always how I did editorial at first. I think the reason that I like beauty so much and I was able to go to Allure was because I trusted the artists. I\u2019ve always worked with really great people so it\u2019s always pushed further. If it runs, I don\u2019t care. If they kill it and it costs money, it\u2019s not my money.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Is that two sided? Is it art or is it commerce? <\/strong><br \/>\nTo me, it is commerce. We are doing commerce. It may be that we\u2019ve done it and it is artful and it becomes art. But our job is commerce. It\u2019s walking that line, if it\u2019s too safe, it\u2019s too commercial and if it\u2019s too far over, it\u2019s too edgy. So we have to be right in the middle and I think someone, like Steven Meisel, you always see the clothes. He does it beautifully but he is taking a fashion photo, he is doing fashion and he is clear.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/4-GRACE_HARTZEL_W_MAGAZINE_SEPTEMBER_2016_ROE_ETHRIDGE-5.jpg\" alt=\"4-grace_hartzel_w_magazine_september_2016_roe_ethridge-5\" width=\"1600\" height=\"1040\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-49571\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/4-GRACE_HARTZEL_W_MAGAZINE_SEPTEMBER_2016_ROE_ETHRIDGE-5.jpg 1600w, https:\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/4-GRACE_HARTZEL_W_MAGAZINE_SEPTEMBER_2016_ROE_ETHRIDGE-5-1280x832.jpg 1280w, https:\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/4-GRACE_HARTZEL_W_MAGAZINE_SEPTEMBER_2016_ROE_ETHRIDGE-5-200x130.jpg 200w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1600px) 100vw, 1600px\" \/><\/p>\n<div class=\"credits\">W SEPTEMBER 2016 ROE ETHRIDGE<\/div>\n<div class=\"txtbox\">\n<p><strong>He\u2019s not trying to hide it.<\/strong><br \/>\nHe\u2019s not camouflaging any of it. It is beautiful and covetable. Hats off to this man who has done that. If everyone were like this, maybe we would not be in the state we\u2019re in. <\/p>\n<p><strong>I mean he has championed and discovered so many great muses that are still relevant today. <\/strong><br \/>\nOutside of the industry, people look at models as mannequins. They\u2019re the girls who fit the clothes, they\u2019re tall and pretty. What they really are, just like the hair and makeup artists, are collaborators. If the model is allowed to model and allowed to really put forth her contribution she\u2019s putting in work just as much as the stylist, hair, and makeup, if not more. Linda Evangelista was a brilliant collaborator. Kristin McMenamy, Christy Turlington, Kate Moss. Even the ones now like Liya Kebede. They\u2019re creating that picture. Whatever expression we\u2019re giving to the clothes or beauty matches with whatever expression they\u2019re giving to their body language. How they\u2019re reacting to the space, whether it\u2019s a studio or on location. It\u2019s a collaboration. To make it any less than that, makes me crazy. When people are like oh she\u2019s just a model. You try modeling! See how hard it is to do a selfie and look beautiful. See how hard it is to know what your light is. See how hard it is to convey a thing you\u2019re supposed to convey. Really they should be paid more than they\u2019re paid. That\u2019s what I think! <\/p>\n<p><strong>How was it in the 80\u2019s or 90\u2019s? Was it more extravagant? Was there more money?<\/strong><br \/>\nThe crews weren\u2019t as big. Most of us didn\u2019t have assistants. The photographer maybe had 2 assistants. Now he or she has 4 and a digital tech. Then there\u2019s a digital crew and a lighting crew. Hair and makeup have assistants. I have, you know, one assistant and there were times when I didn\u2019t have an assistant for years. There\u2019s people doing video and suddenly there\u2019s all these people on set. Is it going to cost more? Of course. Was there more money? Maybe there was or maybe it just cost less. A dress cost less. You buy a dress now it\u2019s $2,500. Are you kidding me? That\u2019s your rent! It\u2019s just a sign of the times. <\/p>\n<div class=\"pullquote\">\n&#8220;The natural order of things change. That\u2019s just the way the world works and thank God it changes. The best part about change is that if you\u2019re having a bad time, you know it\u2019s going to change. Also we have a good time it\u2019s going to change too but that\u2019s not so great but it will change back! It\u2019s all a part of life.&#8221;\n<\/div>\n<p><strong>Do you think the onset of digital has brought that on? Do you think it\u2019s hindered the industry? <\/strong><br \/>\nI think if you probably asked people, when I first started if what I was doing was hindering the industry, they\u2019d probably say yes. So, I think it\u2019s just the world. The natural order of things change. That\u2019s just the way the world works and thank God it changes. The best part about change is that if you\u2019re having a bad time, you know it\u2019s going to change. Also we have a good time it\u2019s going to change too but that\u2019s not so great but it will change back! It\u2019s all a part of life. People\u2019s concentration is on the monitor, rather than on the model has changed the relationship.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/Tiffanys_DariaW_MichaelThompson-1-1280x849.jpg\" alt=\"tiffanys_dariaw_michaelthompson\" width=\"1280\" height=\"849\" class=\"alignnone size-medium wp-image-49528\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/Tiffanys_DariaW_MichaelThompson-1.jpg 1280w, https:\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/Tiffanys_DariaW_MichaelThompson-1-200x133.jpg 200w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1280px) 100vw, 1280px\" \/><\/p>\n<div class=\"credits\">TIFFANY &#038; CO SPRING\/SUMMER 2014 MICHAEL THOMPSON<\/div>\n<div class=\"txtbox\">\n<p><strong>A lot of people seem to be dedicating energy into trying to figure out what\u2019s right for them. The Public School guys were like, we\u2019re doing 2 shows per year with men and women together.<\/strong><br \/>\nThe thing is there was no extravaganza in shows. The girls were the extravaganza. That\u2019s the reason Pat Cleveland was such a sensation. She would twirl and she was the show. Billie Blair was the smile who they&#8217;d call the clown princess of the runway. She was brilliant. Bethann came out and you knew it was Bethann. You knew that it was Karen Bjornson. They had their thing and they were all different.<\/p>\n<p>It changed, and it should change and everything does change, and it\u2019s going to change again. But I think you\u2019re right, I think there\u2019s a feeling of &#8220;we can\u2019t keep this up, or should we keep this up? Should we be chasing everything?&#8221; I\u2019m about to say something that\u2019s going to make me sound very unpopular, but we\u2019re chasing millennials. Designers are chasing millennials who can\u2019t afford the clothes, because they\u2019re kids. The clothes are beautiful &#8211; you want a Prada, so you should save for a Prada. We\u2019re chasing all of this and we\u2019re forgetting the people that can afford it. How do you marry both things? How do you include everyone without sort of, making each of those two things coil? And feel left out? Every conversation is about being inclusive. Diversity and inclusiveness.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ageism definitely comes into play. <\/strong><br \/>\nAgeism, everything. How do we do this? This is our challenge. How do we as a race of humans keep our planet going? I\u2019m not lofty, I\u2019m not smart, but I understand inclusiveness. As a family, you have to include all of you. Babies, old people. I\u2019m a grandparent now, I have to include my grandchildren and I have to include me. The industry, we have to include all of us. How do we do this without alienating everybody?<\/p>\n<p>This has been the great thing about being fired &#8211; they can call it laid off or whatever the fuck they want to call it. I was fired. I made too much money and they fired me. So it\u2019s like, as an older person suddenly I\u2019m in a new world, and now I\u2019m just a historical thing. I\u2019m being interviewed now because I have a history. Do they forget that I\u2019m alive and still doing things? I\u2019m glad I have a history and I\u2019m glad I\u2019m not dead. All of my friends are dead and I\u2019m alive. How does anyone become part of this new world? How does the youth embrace what happened before them? I think we\u2019re forgetting that we have to marry all of this. That\u2019s inclusiveness. It\u2019s not just diversity or pieces, it\u2019s everything.<\/p>\n<div class=\"pullquote\">\n&#8220;The industry, we have to include all of us. How do we do this without alienating everybody?&#8221;\n<\/div>\n<p><strong>Coexisting. Anna Wintour with everything that she\u2019s done from when she started all the way up to the current point. Why is that a novelty?<\/strong><br \/>\nIt\u2019s not a novelty, we should be able to do this. You just have to look at your own family to see that you can coexist. Families are very complicated so there\u2019s a whole other thing, but you know to me that\u2019s my challenge of being in this new era. I can keep styling, doing freelance and editorial and I\u2019m grateful for all of that and I\u2019m doing it, but I also have to think what is the next thing in life. As a parent, or as an older person it\u2019s like\u2026 I have to figure it out because I also have to show someone how to do this. I fortunately have a very smart child, so she\u2019s taught me a lot always. She has taught me and inspired me a lot so I\u2019ve always known about music because I had a kid. When hip hop happened I knew about hip hop because my daughter was a DJ. It was fine, she had a hip hop station in college so I knew what the music was. It was fine, but I also worked with young people so it\u2019s like\u2026 <\/p>\n<p><strong>Keeps you relevant. <\/strong><br \/>\nKeeps you alive. Keeps you a part of what is now. Now that the internet is a more scary thing. I think people are treating it like it\u2019s scary but it\u2019s just what is happening. This is what time it is. <\/p>\n<p><strong>I\u2019ve never grown up without internet as a research tool. You talk about a cover that you did in 1991, being able to go google it immediately. That immediacy is an addition to our generation but also a flaw. We want things now.<\/strong><br \/>\nIf we view things as flaws, it\u2019s just what\u2019s so. It\u2019s available to you, so why not use it? We can\u2019t fault it, you have to just go okay this is what it is and how do I take that to move forward? And it\u2019s harder for someone who is older because we have the old thing but in fact, you just have to be present. This is it, this is the what is so now. What am I going to do?<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2017\/01\/V105_COVER_05_HR-2000x2730.jpg\" width=\"2000\" height=\"2730\" class=\"alignnone size-large wp-image-49734\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2017\/01\/V105_COVER_05_HR.jpg 2000w, https:\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2017\/01\/V105_COVER_05_HR-1280x1747.jpg 1280w, https:\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2017\/01\/V105_COVER_05_HR-147x200.jpg 147w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" \/><\/p>\n<div class=\"credits\">V SPRING PREVIEW 2017 MARIO TESTINO<\/div>\n<div class=\"txtbox\">\n<p><strong>Looking back in retrospect, what would you particularly say was the biggest change you\u2019ve seen in the industry good or bad? <\/strong><br \/>\nI think the internet. I think that\u2019s the biggest change. How we look at things, how people get information. How the world is going to change a little bit from what\u2019s important information to what is fast information. <\/p>\n<p><strong>Buzzfeed kind of. <\/strong><br \/>\nYes, how much is click bait rather than what\u2019s important. This visual is something everyone will click on but what\u2019s really the story here? Fashion is a medium, whether it\u2019s through journalism or not. The media is involved in what is getting numbers as opposed to what is the important part of the story. Click bait versus substance. It\u2019s hard because we think of fashion and beauty as fluffy. <\/p>\n<p>You know, if this industry is ready to throw me away because I\u2019m old, I can be a bartender. It would be hilarious. I could work nights and go take my grandchildren to school, then go to sleep and wake up and start again.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Is there any difference between the models that you see coming up now compared to the ones in the early nineties? <\/strong><br \/>\nIt\u2019s funny, I think always it\u2019s the same. If you want it, you want it. I\u2019ve worked with Kendall Jenner. She likes modeling. She wants to be a good model. She\u2019s working on it. Grace Hartzel. She loves modeling! I did a shoot which was so nutty. They were lots of girls and we had someone who was just a body model. She was going to be a nurse with a mask on so we weren\u2019t going to use her face. We ended up using the real model and then Grace asked to me, can I be the nurse for a little while too? And I said, why? Your face is going to be completely covered and she was like, it would be so much fun! She just wanted to be part of the experience of doing the shoot. So, she wants it. There\u2019s no difference. Looks change, but our standard of beauty changes a little bit too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Is there anything that you want to do that you haven\u2019t had the opportunity to do already because you\u2019ve been in the box as far as responsibilities or you have a quota to fill or you have a deadline? <\/strong><br \/>\nI would love to do a movie. I\u2019ve done a lot. I\u2019ve been lucky that I\u2019ve had the opportunity to do so many things. <\/p>\n<p><strong>Would you ever want to do one of those things where you style a celebrity full time?<\/strong><br \/>\nI\u2019ve done it. I\u2019ve worked with a lot  of celebrities. I think someone like Kate Young is brilliant. I don\u2019t understand the 360 degree perspective. To me you\u2019re going to sit down, you\u2019re going to stand up. I\u2019m never going to see the whole thing. She can do the whole thing. If you\u2019re going to turn around, we\u2019re going to see the whole body. I\u2019m always like, when we do a picture it\u2019s two dimensional don\u2019t worry about it we\u2019re going to work this shit out. I\u2019m not interested in that. I\u2019m not sure that I\u2019m that focused on making the body that beautiful with all of its flaws. Could I be good? Maybe. Of course I\u2019ve learned a lot about fit that I didn\u2019t know, but I like fashion as fashion. <\/p>\n<p><strong>And, this is my final question. What stands out as iconic to you? Whether it\u2019s a model or a person working in fashion. What do you think defines that statement? Saying \u201cyou are iconic because\u2026&#8221;<\/strong><br \/>\nYou know it\u2019s funny because I think there are so many iconic moments. Thank god for Steven Meisel. Thank god for Linda Evangelista. Thank god for Christy Turlington. Christy Turlington let us know that you could look ethnic and still be gorgeous. Naomi Campbell, the first black woman to model where you didn\u2019t think, \u201coh let\u2019s get a black model.&#8221; It was like, \u201cOh let\u2019s just book Naomi&#8221; or \u201clet\u2019s just book Christy&#8221; She was the same thing! Icon. <\/p>\n<p><strong>You\u2019ve gotten to work with them, yeah. <\/strong><br \/>\nAnna Wintour. These are icons. Antonio Lopez! I look at my life and think, oh my god. I never ever thought that this would be my life. I knew I wanted something different, I wanted something alluring. I didn\u2019t think it was going to be given what my circumstances were but this is what I\u2019ve got to see. Did I save any lives? No. But oh my god, it\u2019s been such a great life. And on top of this I\u2019ve had an amazing family. The fact that I was fired, which to me was horrifying and at the same time it\u2019s like, oh my god I\u2019ve had that! This too has happened to me. I\u2019ve been hired for great jobs and I\u2019ve been fired for something. It\u2019s kind of great. I\u2019ve gotten it all. <\/p>\n<p><strong>And it\u2019s not the end! It\u2019s not the end of the world. <\/strong><br \/>\nNone of it is! This is all just a part of life. Having lost Kezia. Having lost my family. I lost John, I lost my Dad, my grandma, I lost my entire family in three years. Having lost all of that and still being able to go on, it\u2019s kind of great and kind of good. I have this. <\/p>\n<p>There were so many times I thought it was the end! Like when Kezia died I thought, I am done because my whole thing was tied up to her. So many people have helped me through all of the hard times. I have an incredible child who has helped me. Like, you have to be grateful. For me I\u2019m grateful that I have a child. I don\u2019t think that she\u2019s as grateful that she has me **laughs**<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"small-12 columns pic40\">\n<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/Hillary-Clinton_AnnieL_1298-1-1280x1768.jpg\" width=\"1280\" height=\"1768\" class=\"alignnone size-medium wp-image-49531\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/Hillary-Clinton_AnnieL_1298-1.jpg 1280w, https:\/\/i.mdel.net\/mdx\/i\/2016\/12\/Hillary-Clinton_AnnieL_1298-1-145x200.jpg 145w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1280px) 100vw, 1280px\" \/>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"credits\">VOGUE DECEMBER 1998 ANNIE LEIBOVITZ<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The noted fashion stylist sits down with Models.com to discuss his inspiring career and what&#8217;s next<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":81,"featured_media":49557,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[155,99,1538],"tags":[2554,398,2709,2645],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/models.com\/mdx\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/49514"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/models.com\/mdx\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/models.com\/mdx\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/models.com\/mdx\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/81"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/models.com\/mdx\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=49514"}],"version-history":[{"count":76,"href":"https:\/\/models.com\/mdx\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/49514\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":49751,"href":"https:\/\/models.com\/mdx\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/49514\/revisions\/49751"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/models.com\/mdx\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/49557"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/models.com\/mdx\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=49514"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/models.com\/mdx\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=49514"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/models.com\/mdx\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=49514"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}